share.triangle.com - Immigration deal - Comments

Why We Can't Find Willing Workers

margins — Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:31:39 -0400

Growing up in a farming community on the coast, there were many times when we would go looking for workers to help with crops. Most often potential workers would decline employment saying it would "mess up their check."

If we need farm and other minimum-wage workers so desparately, why don't we look at our social programs and how they are removing otherwise able-bodied persons from the potential worker pool? Severly limit social programs and the "we can't find anyone to do that particular job" line justifying illegal immigration would evaporate.

The only "mess" we have with immigration is the mess government has created and perpetuates!

not positive contributors

judyso — Fri, 25 May 2007 02:00:13 -0400

Illegal aliens entering the US are not making a positive contribution, Wake up.

That's just the spin of the pro-immigration movement and growth by population strategy.

It really doesn't matter what products illegal aliens purchase. Most of these products are imported. In fact the more they buy, the greater the trade deficit.

It really doesn't matter that they are nice hard-working people. Most people of the world are nice hard-working people including Americans.

You claim that pulling "10 million productive people out of the US work force" is going to cause economic collapse? Why would that collapse our economy if exporting 20 million manufacturing jobs out of the US work force through Free Trade Agreements didn't collapse our economy? Most illegal aliens are not working. These 10 million aren't all workers. More than half of these illegal aliens are kids and teen-agers that aren't contributing to anything except crowding our schools.

Lets say there are 5,000,000 illegal alien workers. We have over 7 million on unemployment benefits and that many whose benefits expired a long time ago with no new job to replace the one they lost. We have 37 million in poverty. We have 48 million uninsured.

With 14 million unemployed workers, 37 million people living below the poverty line and 48 million without health insurance ... we will not even notice that 10 million illegal aliens are gone after they go home.

What we will notice is spacious unclogged waiting rooms at Emergency and Trauma Centers; that have plenty of schools with space to spare; a real drop in the unemployment; a rise in income, wages and salaries and possibly some nice benefits like health insurance where they did not exist before.

We will notice that have plenty of prisons after all, that our drunk driving and vehicular homicide rates declined and Americans are not big Litter Bugs after all.

We will notice a great many things .. but economic collapse .... will not be among them.

Illegal aliens need to be advised that they must leave our country and return to theirs voluntarily. They may take their possessions and money they've earned here. But they may not stay.

This is one of the most important decisions our country will ever make. It's vitally important to the United States and American People that our borders be secured immediately, notice is given to illegal aliens to head home and existing US Immigration Law is enforced to the letter.

Our country is not for sale and our immigration laws are not negotiable.

Why is Congress Rewarding Illegal behavior?

rebelbelle — Wed, 23 May 2007 11:11:49 -0400

This bill is a BAD idea. I feel sorry for the Mexicans who come here for a better life, but, then again, a lot of American jobs have gone to Mexico--just ask a former textile worker.

I have no problem with properly documented guest workers who do jobs that there is no American to fill. However, these are usually skilled jobs--not working at Burger King.

We have a hard time filling entry level jobs with Americans for two reasons: Welfare pays better than work, and drug use trumps the desire to work. I question a system that rewards people for not working.

We need to clean up the immigration rules. A friend's son (on duty with Special Forces), fell in love with and married a Filipino girl. They have a two year old child. He has been transferred to Iraq. Wife and baby cannot come to the US because there is a seven year waiting period. What happens to his family if this young man is killed in Iraq?

Illegal aliens broke our laws by coming here--a sign that they may be less than desirable residents. They drive without a license and under the influence--and there have been several deaths in recent months attributed to those actions. It costs us money--they have babies and use the ER for medical care--and we pay the bills. The children attend school--and we pay not only for their education, but also in providing extra services to make sure that there is "No Child Left Behind". As a result, school systems are short-changing bright kids because the resources are going to bilingual education.

One of the first requirements for any guest worker or temporary immigrations should be that the person speak and understand English to the point that they can communicate basic needs. We should not be forced to provide everything in Spanish. This group of "immigrants" is the first to refuse to learn English and demand that everything be provided in their native language. If you choose to immigrate to another country, one of your first actions must be to learn the language!

Time to tell our elected Representatative that we want a law deporting any illegal alien who comes into contact with law enforcement--with his/her family. Time to also tell them we want a law declaring that English is the official language of the United States!

Why they come

JeffDeWitt — Mon, 21 May 2007 09:49:39 -0400

We KNOW why most of them come here, it's because unscruplious employers will give them jobs. We need to strictly enforce the laws against hiring these people and they will stay away. Anyone who knowingly hires an criminal alien should go to JAIL.

As to this bill... it should be written on toilet tissue, at least then it has the potential of accomplishing something useful. As it is the thing should be killed and any Congresscritter who supports it should find a job more in line with their talents... I understand Burger King is hiring.

Jeff DeWitt

immigration bill

carolmfrey — Mon, 21 May 2007 08:23:50 -0400

If Congress is going to change the flow of immigrants from the south, it's crucial to understand why they come. There's no fence in the world that will keep out people who need money to feed their kids. Ask those who have been tunneling under the California border. Just declaring border-crossing illegal and beefing up law enforcement won't stop a force of nature, and that's what the survival instinct is. We would accomplish about as much as our grandfathers who once tried to declare drinking illegal.

Don't reward lawbreakers

SeenTheLight — Mon, 21 May 2007 06:32:28 -0400

People around the world are waiting patiently for a chance at the American dream. These border jumpers think they're above US laws. They should not be rewarded. They should ALL be deported.

More Fraud

Carson — Sun, 20 May 2007 19:28:22 -0400

27,000,000 Illegal Invaders already here looting our hospitals and social services and the farmers can't find enough of them to work for them. Maybe the answer isn't more!

The thing that concerns me about any sort of immigration law reform is that every few years they re-invent the same laws. Each time they work in amnesty and gravy parts for the illegal aliens. They are always quick to hand out the amnesty and gravy parts but they never do get around to the enforcement parts of the laws.

Do they really need a shiny new set of laws when they have never given the old comprehensive laws a test drive?

http://www.vdare.com/rubenstein/051101_nd.htm

Notices of intent to fine employers:

1997: 865
1999: 417
2000: 178
2001: 100
2003: 162
2004: 3

Worksite arrests of illegal alien workers:

1997: 17,554
1999: 2,849
2000: 953
2001: 735
2003: 445
2004: 159

Elected Leaders Giving Our Country Away

Jimmy — Sun, 20 May 2007 10:42:39 -0400

It is quite clear that our so-called elected leaders are only interested in the wishes of of the wealthy corporations and special interest groups. This irresponsible bill will reward illegal aliens for breaking every immigration law, federal tax, state tax and local tax
laws. Senator Ted Kennedy, Senator John McCain and President Bush and the other pro-illegal alien supporters could care less about the best interests of Americans.

Undocumented Workers, Positive Contributors to US Economy

Wake up — Sun, 20 May 2007 09:39:52 -0400

Whether one agrees or disagrees with the general concept of undocumented immigration doesn't change the ultimate reality that millions of these people are embedded in the fiber of America, in a mutually-beneficial relationship, and have been for many years. Once your teen daughter is pregnant you can lay plans to prevent a recurrence - but you still have a pregnancy to deal with. People can argue personal philosophy and engage in name-calling indefinitely - but until we're able to pass beyond our own personal perceptions of how things "should be" and address them as they exist, no constructive change can be effected.

Most of the stated disputes with undocumented immigrants in this particular forum appear to be the mere fact that they came here illegally. I can almost guarantee that every contributor here has driven over the speed limit, or copied CD's and DVD's - not because we had to, but simply for our own convenience. Virtually every one of us has broken laws (and how much, much worse to break a law for simple convenience than for need) thus has no room to be accusatory. Quite obviously laws and morality and ethics are not necessarily congruent. That which is "legal" isn't necessarily right, and that which is "illegal" isn't necessarily wrong. That's why AMERICA HAS A BUILT-IN CAPACITY TO MODIFY ITS LAWS WHEN NEEDS DICTATE.

In America's ugly past slavery was legal. Just this year, our politicians issued a formal, national apology for that. Male or female slaves escaping to live independent lives were considered criminals, as were those who assisted them. Our laws obviously grew and changed, but not without great opposition by those benefiting from the then-current situation, not without taking time, and not without sacrifice on the parts of many. Comprehensive immigration reform is somewhat analogous. Believe me, our government does not allow a situation to exist for years unless the country benefits from it. Now we have to address a circumstance as it exists, and come to terms with it. It will happen. It is simply a question of precisely how and when. Our politicians will be meeting in our future to formulate an apology to peaceful, productively-contributing immigrants who are now being attacked in militant manners.

It's interesting that individuals attempt to use the worn, completely incorrect argument that undocumented workers are somehow economically robbing our society. This is easily proven incorrect.

First: Undocumented workers DO INDEED contribute vast amounts of funds into our Social Security and Medicare base. Have any of you seen copies of the tax ID form sent every year (I personally call it the "wink" form) to millions of undocumented workers? The hundreds of thousands of companies who employ undocumented workers (most of which have extremely strong work ethics, and are highly-regarded employees) send Social Security and Medicare payments to the government, as required by law, under the tax ID numbers or Social Security numbers they are given. Follow me here - nobody is getting robbed. There is a positive, productive exchange of economic work and remuneration for it. Plus, the government gets its due. Now - the government gladly accepts the money, but notices that the ID number accompanying it doesn't match up somehow. It has to cover its back, so sends out a little form saying basically "we received this money, and (wink, wink) the numbers don't quite match up. IF you would like to receive your benefits, please contact our office." Notice it doesn't say, "We must return these funds because there appears to be an error." The government knows well (wink wink) that the individuals are not documented, but is actually very happy with the situation because it's receiving lots and lots of money it doesn't have to account for. Those of us who collect or will collect Social Security or Medicare are the direct beneficiaries of this - NOT the undocumented workers who actually earned the money.

Second: ECONOMIC REALITIES DRIVE THE DECISIONS OF FOR-PROFIT COMPANIES. Undocumented workers pump tremendous amounts of CASH MONEY into our economy. They purchase homes, automobiles, electronics, tools, housewares, groceries, and pay leases, as well as investing in banks. Many of the biggest corporations in the U.S., for example Lowe's and Bank of America, actively solicit consumers from this community. Companies wouldn't go to tremendous expense of advertising, labeling their products and offering services in Spanish if it weren't highly profitable for them. They well recognize the economic contributions of this particular population subset.

Third: If anyone truly wishes to witness economic collapse, pull 10 million+ people out of a country's productive work force at one time. Hold them all in detention centers, with US taxpayers footing the bills for lodging and food. Build a giant, high-tech, very expensive wall which individuals searching for work will inevitably find ways around. Exactly who will profit? Those individuals running for-profit prisons, those building/maintaining the wall, and the politicians who receive kickbacks for arranging such building, maintenance and prison contracts. An absolutely brilliant solution.

As for one individual's comments that undocumented workers are taking jobs from Americans, he or she should speak with business owners in construction, produce, farming, maintenance. There is absolutely no factual backing to this claim. The reality is that many low-income Americans see this work as beneath them, and prefer to live on government handouts.

All of us, save Native Americans, are immigrants or descendants thereof. That's what makes our country unique.

The vast majority of undocumented individuals I know don't seek blanket amnesty, or even citizenship. They wish only a means to continue in a working situation that is economically positive for everyone involved, and are more than willing to accept a merit-based program for such legitimacy.

Current proposed immigration bill

Doctor_Feelgood — Sat, 19 May 2007 22:31:32 -0400

Judyso's comments were right on point. I think that if we remove the incentives that made crossing the border so inviting they will leave on their own volition.

It is sad that we have to change the whole immigration program to accommodate big business's effort to keep wages low and their pay extremely high. I don't blame big business, the chamber of commerce or all the other advocates that are looking out for their bottom line. I do wonder who is looking at the bottom line for the United States citizen? I wonder who is advocating that we have no more pension funds abandoned? I wonder who is advocating for decent wages so families can pay for their own health care without throwing themselves on the public dole? I wonder who is advocagting for wage earners to earn enough to save for their retirements?

I think we all need to contact our congressional delegates so they are not just listening to industry lobbyist. Our founding fathers were very wise. We have the House of Representatives and they run every 2 years and have very small areas of constituents. If they are not touched by each and every voter who takes issue with this pending legislation and vote the matter up then we are to blame.

Mexicans stealing into the U.S.

andymaryann1@earthlink.net — Sat, 19 May 2007 20:14:59 -0400

Workers have been entering the U.S. through Mexico for hundreds of years, and the overwhelming majority of our citizens and businesses have benefited from their cheap labor .. this is nothing new. What has changed is that in our ignorance the U.S. began giving them many of the same costly benefits paid for by tax payers for free AND in our further mismanagement the U.S. allowed them to grow in their replacement of our skilled tradesman. The U.S. has always jailed or deported criminals regardless of citizenship, etc. Unskilled, lazier, more unreliable Americans, mostly Africans, lost many of their jobs first to mexican immigrants. Then, as their skills have grown, they have taken over many lower middle class positions in landscaping, home construction and repair, etc.

EVERYBODY RECEIVING GOVERNMENT BENEFITS IN THIS COUNTRY MUST ALSO PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE OF THE COST.

THE RICH PEOPLE AND CORPORATIONS IN THIS COUNTRY: 1) PAY LITTLE TO NO INCOME TAXES BECAUSE OF THE LOOP HOLES THEY HAVE CREATED FOR THEMSELVES, A/OR 2) THEY AND THEIR CHILDREN ARE NOT GIVING THEIR FAIR SHARE OF THEIR LIVES ON THE WORLD'S BATTLEFIELDS DEFENDING OUR BENEFITS OF FREEDOM, 3) HAVE TAKEN OVER OUR STATE AND FEDERAL POLITICAL SYSTEMS TO SERVE PRIMARILY THEMSELVES AND TO PRESERVE THEIR DEATH GRIP ON THE OTHER 299,000,000 CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY.

THE MEXICAN IMMIGRANT ISSUE IS JUST ANOTHER POLITICAL SMOKE SCREEN THAT THE RICH ARE USING TO BLAME OTHER PEOPLE FOR THE U.S. ILLS THAT THEY HAVE CREATED IN THEIR CALCULATING IGNORANCE.

immigration bill article

mike barnes — Sat, 19 May 2007 19:08:40 -0400

I have no opinion on this bill but I do find fault with your spending time and space covering it since the Senate will CAHNGE what you printed and the House will CHANGE what you detailed today so that if you are going to be consistent you will have to spread each version all over the front page and go through this exercise.Why not back page this one and onlyfront page what the Congress comes up with for Mr Bush to eventually sign?That is all that really matters is it not??

Heritage Foundation's

MikeWalsh — Sat, 19 May 2007 17:30:57 -0400

Heritage Foundation's opinion on thew 1000 page bill that is trying to be rushed through. Doesn;t the truth sell itself?

MAJOR POINTS:

Create immediate legal status for 12-20 million illegals

Create a 3 path way to citizenship for 12-20 million illegals

It allows every illegal to stay in our country indefinitely

Does not require a "touch back" to obtain what they are calling a Z Visa

It gives illegals health care and education benefits and incredibly backs credits for social security benefits in the past (if you worked in Mexico, even though the money taxed didn't go into our pool, it is counted)

It creates a new temporary worker Y Visa program with unlimited totals

Before any triggers are satisfied it does all of this, and it cuts the border fence in half.
************************************************

Start calling the republican senators on Monday. Vote NO for cloture [it means debate will end if they vote yes on cloture] and vote NO on the bill.

Amnesty by any other name....

Bigtopher — Sat, 19 May 2007 15:19:13 -0400

...is still amnesty. If you've never had to compete against someone willing to do your job for less money than you can live on, don't worry. You will.
Call the RNC, tell them not to vote for it! 202 863 8500!

send them home

judyso — Sat, 19 May 2007 12:01:31 -0400

This bill is the dumbest thing to spew from the US Senate.

It's 980 pages of roadmap to open our borders and end the sovereignty of the United States.

Any nation has the right to control who enters, when and for what purpose to the best of its ability for any reason or no reason.

The day we don't is the day we'll lose ours.

This legislation legalizes illegal aliens and does nothing to stop illegal immigration. This legislation will authorize 60 million foreign nationals to reside in the United States over the next 13 years and opens the door for an infinite number of unauthorized persons to enter during the same time period.

If you want a United States with a population in excess of 450 million in the next 13 years when the United States is already importing half it's food products and can't sustain successfully the 300 million we have today, then you want a third world dump which is exactly what this bill is designed to hand you.

I don't care what farmers have to pay legal labor ... I think $13.02 an hour is a reasonable wage to pick tobacco when I pay $36.00 a carton for it. I don't care what construction companies have to pay labor to build "pricey" homes ... use the "pricey" to pay your workers. I don't care what Smithfield has to pay to hire workers ... pay whatever it takes and I'll pay whatever it costs at the grocery store for hams and pork chops. Meatpackers used to make $15 an hour ... why they're making less than that today is a real mystery.

Send the illegal aliens home and get America back to work. There are millions of Americans that have been displaced by this problem. Get the illegal aliens out of the country and get Americans back to work.

We have idleness everywhere in our society because no one is trying to motivate Americans that want to work but who can't find the job. It's so unfair to say "these people are good workers" as if Americans aren't good workers. Americans pick tobacco; Americans slaughter pigs; Americans pick fruit; Americans build houses; Americans mow yards; Americans change beds; Americans clean toilets; Americans do it all and have always done it all until they were shut out of the job market by illegal immigration undercutting their wages, benefits, hours and lives.

To the farmer in the N&O article I would ask ... if hiring seasonal workers legally at $9 an hour ends up costing you $13.02 an hour with transportation costs ... why don't you just hire Americans and pay them $13.02 an hour? I won't believe you can't hire Americans to pick tobacco for $13.02 an hour in North Carolina.

I would suggest .. spend more time in the neighborhoods and sections of our society dealing with terrible unemployment ... instead of Congress ... talk to the people, pump them up, show them the work, show them how to do it, show them the money and pay them a good wage ... show them respect, show them the work is respectable, honorable and important ... and there's not an American in this state that won't pay you that back a thousandfold ... which is what I think the mark up is on tobacco by the time it ends up in my possession at $36.00 a carton.

I don't understand the attitude that if you need labor, you traipse to Washington DC looking for it instead of to the low income areas of our state where your labor supply is. If these people knew you were looking for labor and had a job to offer, you'd find all the labor you could possibly need. But you aren't going to find them roaming the halls of the US Capitol Bldg ... they aren't there ... they're here. If you need help finding these workers, then talk to someone here who knows where they are ... and of course I'm referring to the American Workers that need a job.

Stop selling out our people. When you do, you're selling out our nation.

When you sell something off, you don't have it any more.

There is no price of any commodity, product or service that justifies the consequences of selling out your fellow citizens and your country.

There just isn't.

We have 37 million Americans living below the poverty line either because the adults in that number don't have a job or don't have a job that pays $10 an hour.

We have 48 million Americans without health insurance either because the adults in that number don't have a job or the job they have doesn't offer health insurance or the job doesn't pay enough for the worker to purchase health insurance on their own.

This is part of your labor supply. Go find them. Make a deal. Get them to work for you, treat them properly, get them out of poverty, get them off welfare, get them health insurance or the means to purchase their own ... use your business to help your business by helping our fellow citizens and our nation.

You pay the price to hire Americans to make the products and provide the services, and we'll pay the price when we buy them. Free market, legal labor supply, social responsibility ... everyone playing by the same rules and doing it right. You'll be amazed how many problems can be solved in our country by these few simple steps.

Now lets secure our borders, enforce existing US Immigration Law, and tell Congress to shove the immigration reform bill which is nothing but an open borders end the United States piece of Shamnesty Legislation down the toilet where it belongs. Then ... FLUSH TWICE!!

This legislation is actually evil in its big picture long-term impact on the United States.

It truly is.

KILL THE BILL!

Immigration deal

danbarkin — Fri, 18 May 2007 15:33:35 -0400

Senate negotiators have come up with a new immigration bill that would allow most of the nation's illegal immigrants to gain legal status, while attempting to tighten up border security. What do you think of this proposal? It could affect some 300,000 illegal immigrants in North Carolina. Weigh in here.

Senate negotiators have come up with a new immigration bill that would allow most of the nation's illegal immigrants to gain legal status, while attempting…