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In America, even the cheap seats were not so bad for me.

John — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 12:47:09 -0400

It is important to understand that Freedom in America equals Individual Liberty. Just as life is lived as individual experience, Freedom and Liberty is an individual experience. This is why America’s version of Freedom protects the Individual citizen from all the other citizens, the government, religious tyrants, racist demagogues, and anyone who would try to take away our documented rights as individual citizens.

To truly live as an American Citizen, fully enfranchised in personal Freedom and Liberty, the citizens must stand together equally and individually.

A fully enfranchised American Citizens understands and appreciates this protection for the individual against the mass at large. Long ago, we as a country decided to live, and if necessary, fight and die together for the principles of individual freedom and liberty.

Dr. King held the vision of true individual liberty for all people. The thrust and momentum of American history, from the earliest immigrants to the many “White and Black” people brought to America in bondage and slavery is toward freedom for the individual person.

(As a note on real history, there were both, so called, White slave owners and, so called, Black slave owners. Likewise, there were White slaves and Black slaves.
Some of the most cruel slave owners had the same skin color as their slaves, and some of the most benevolent slave owners had light skin. Aspects such as this are likely never mentioned in Black racist institutions such as Obama’s church.)

Mike, I’m glad you used the term for some as to Black experience. Certainly no rational person would propose that every person with skin pigment dark enough to qualify as Black, has a drop of Black blood, or had some relative in the past that came from Africa; would be stereotyped as to all having the same Black experience.
I would agree with you that SOME OF the people called Black people, White people, Brown people, Yellow people, people from all the various cultures and nationalities, yes some of them, have very bad, deliberating experiences in America.

Can each of us individually understand each of their experiences? Of course not. Is it necessary for us to understand all these experiences to function together as a free people? I hope not.

So it is impossible for me or you, Mike, to walk in anybody’s, much less, everybody else’s shoes. This excuse is not valid. People do understand other people’s misfortune and misery. Look around at all the effort there is to help other people.

I seldom speak of this because it is actually irreverent at this point in my life, but I grew up being abused by the “Black” kids and “White kids, not fitting in with either. We were poor ‘indians”, living up an alley behind the shoe shop in a two room apartment near the corner of Bloodsworth and Martin Streets. I was ashamed of my heritage and the fact that my dad had been in prison. I got off to a bad start. Yet today I am proud to be an American citizen and will stand and fight with any American (Black or White) for their and our individual liberties. I will not stand however with anyone who asks God to damn America regardless of the rational.

Education begins with each of us, I would agree with you that it is obvious that you, myself, Obama, his minister, all the people who believe like him, and all freedom loving Americans need to learn as much as possible about our wondrous individual liberty, and as much as possible about treats to that individual liberty even from groups like Obama’s church who racially reduce mainstream America to “typical” Rich White men. I think Obams is now contributing to the education.

SSpeaking as one who perhaps had one of the cheapest seats originally in the nation, mainstream America looks pretty good to me, flaws and all, but some of the fringe groups now appear extremely threatening and sinister from the cheap seats, or any seat in the house for that matter.

The view is always bad from the cheap seats...

mwilliam — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 09:07:47 -0400

Jon for some black people in this country it may have felt like what Rev. Wright described at one time. For some, it is still like that, but on different levels. A person has to be in someone elses shoes to understand. In this country, we don't understand that. We think we know everything, when really, we are so uneducated on so many things.

The view is always bad from the cheap seats...

Finally part two, perhaps

John — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 00:41:31 -0400

In the last few weeks my admiration for Senator Obama has turned to first disappointment, then concern, and now alarm.

My wife and I decided to vote for Obama back when we thought our choice would be between Clinton and Obama. We believed that Obama would transcend racism and help complete the social integration Dr. King envisioned and mainstream America embraced.

The disappointment came when Obama designated himself Black. The primary reason I considered the terms Black and White to be racist and offensive to me is because in this context I am either Brown or Yellow. I am neither Brown nor Yellow; I am a fully enfranchised American Citizen without qualification, disclaimer, race, or color designation.

My sense of concern came when I was watching TV and the unReverend Wright began to repeat over and over G.D. America. Each time he repeated G.D. America the congregation was shouting in agreement. Even the young people and children were caught up in the call on God for damnation of America. Growing up I was taught not to ask God to damn people, and that to do so was using God’s name in vain and blasphemy. To me this was the most evil looking and evil sounding mass call for a curse that I had ever witnessed. The fact that they were calling for God to damn my country frankly made me a little sick at the stomach and extremely sad.
.
Then I read the article in the News & Observer on Friday March 21 on page three by Margaret Talev titled Obama’s church holds controversial views. Here’s a link to the article on McClatchy Newspapers online version: VIEW McCLATCHY ARTICLE

The article gives insight into "basis for Trinity's philosophies" and points to a book by James Cone, Black Theology & Black Power published in 1969 as having major influence over the unReverend Jeremiah Wright, Jr.

Quoting from the article:

Cone wrote that the United States was a white racist nation and that the white church was the Antichrist for having supported slavery and segregation.

Today, Cone, a professor at Union Theological Seminary in New York, stands by that view, but also makes clear that he doesn’t believe that whites individually are the Antichrist.

In an interview, Cone said that when he was asked which church most embodied his message, ‘I would point to that church [Trinty] first’. Cone also said that he thought that Wright’s successor, the Rev. Otis Moss III, would continue the tradition.

I am just now beginning to read Cone’s book. Now I am fully alarmed and becoming better informed thanks to Obama. Hopefully mainstream American society will become aware of what is going on in churches and institutions over America today.

I am now convinced more than every that the use of, and thinking in, the terms Black, White, and Brown for grouping people racially contributes to and facilitates racism – especially neo-Black racism today.

It appears to me that the decision to use the term Black by Cone and his followers in a racial context appears to be deliberate and used in order to polarize and group the enemy Whites into one stereotypical group to blame, resent, hate, and to seek revenge upon -- a blame, hate, and revenge to be carried over from one generation after another such as in Obama’s church.

And now this Black racist movement is about to elect a president of the United States. Talk about a major, and very effective, conspiracy!

Much light of public attention needs to be focused on this anti-American movement.

It appears that the follows of Cone and men like Wright, and certainly after 20 years of silent indoctrination, Obama, turned away from integration into mainstream American society to establish a Black Nation within America.

I wonder what Dr. King would think of this?

Obama, in my opinion, is dangerous for America.

finally from John then...

John — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:30:56 -0400

American colleges are mixed with people of English, Scottish, German, French, Russian, Scandinavians, Chinese, Japanese, Arabic, African, etc, heritage. Only by lumping them all under the category of White can any question of diversity be supported today at the University level.

In a community where perhaps 20% of the population is considered Black, then a HBCU should have about 80% other than Black. Likewise, the mainstream schools in such an area should have about 20% so call Black students. My understanding is that most mainstream schools have achieved a diversity that is similar to the community diversity at large. Of course some fringe groups like gypsies are not represented equally.

I do not understand why a Black school would help someone prepare for life better than a traditional mainstream school. You appear to be supporting a case for Black only and White only schools and cultures. I am sure that many would agree that going to school with everybody like themselves would be preferable and more beneficial to them individually for a number of good reasons.

You also appear to be calling students today in mainstream schools to be ignorant people who you needed Black school training to deal with effectively.

The time and day has come when that type of Black or White training is no longer needed.

I would like to explore this issue further, however, you certainly may close at your will. Thank you for an open forum and an opportunity to have this good and, yes, healthy conversation. Unless we really begin to speak frankly and openly to one another, we can never bridge this divide.
.

My final thoughts, part two

mwilliam — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:31:30 -0400

Both traditional colleges and HBCU's can do much more to be more diverse. 80/20 or 70/30 is NOT diverse. That's where traditional schools are and where HBCU's are climbing toward. They BOTH need to do better.

What some don't understand about HBCU's is that these schools help prepare you for life better than a traditional school would. I chose an HBCU over a traditional school because I needed certain training to deal with ignorant people that I could not get at a traditional school. If there comes a time where that type of training isn't needed, great. I wish that day would come. Unfortunately, Jon, that day isn't here.

Thanks for a good, healthy conversation about this issue.

What can be done?

John — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:53:32 -0400

The formula for true reconciliation, transition, and final full integration, into one single American community does have a Black, Brown, Yellow, and White component, so to speak. Each isolated group must take action.

The Black component has found strength, comfort, and racial pride in polarizing into a single racial “community”. Neo-Blackness has become a racial identity to the extent that Blacks criticize other Blacks for marrying Whites for example. And if this happens, then the child must be brought up in Black culture.

The act required for Blacks: Give up Black racism. Integrate into mainstream American society without attitude, stop teaching children to distrust and blame mainstream Americans, stop stereotyping mainstream Americans as White former slave owners. Do not be afraid to become a fully franchised individual American citizen without color or racial community.

The act required for Whites: Continue to welcome former Black people into the diverse, highly competitive, but homogenous mainstream society – integrate black and white out of existence.

The act for Browns, Yellow and others: Assimilate and Integrate into mainstream American society without concern for race, ethnic background, former culture or religion.

Regarding Black Universities and such: These institutions were funded and built primarily by White people in racially segregated areas of America so the White people could stay separate from Black people. Now the former White universities are fully integrated. Now is the time for all American Colleges and Universities to be the same.

Perhaps historically Black educational institutions can evolve to assist economically disadvantaged Americans of all shades and colors. The first act for these Black schools, however, is to begin rapid diversification of staff and students.

While I was listening to Sen. Obama deliver his speech rationalizing his religious affiliation and the inflammatory statements made and disseminated by his religious leadership about America and White people, I was reminded of the old Southern rational I would hear in the 50’s and 60’s.

What I found, from having literally lived on the boundary line between the White section and the Black section of town, was that a majority of people from the Southern American states wanted to maintain a form of western European culture. Rather than racist, these people were segregationist. The Southerners wanted nothing to do with African culture. The mantra was “Separate but Equal”.

All people could have water, but at similar but separated fountains. Back then, if there had been more around, there would have been a fountain also for Browns, and Yellows, I’m sure. (There were no fountains for Indians, however)

These “White Southerners” were not true racist in the since of the Nazis, they more divided themselves along the line of Baptists, Methodists, etc., Jews and Catholics accepted with reservation of course.

Back then there was a separate “Negro” culture, however, negros that seemed to adapt to “White Southern” culture and civil standards were considered “the Same but Separate”. Back then I knew two people who had “pass” as Whites. They had become so light skin and mainstream as to lose their separate identity.

My “Indian” relatives back then would point out how the White people were doing so much to help the Negro people have schools, colleges, and Universities; and how so many White people wanted to help Negro people advance while ignoring the misery of poor Indian people.

Not only did hundreds of thousands of White people give their lives to put down slavery in America, the main thrust of the Civil Rights movement was from so called White people.

The branch of freedom called black civil rights today sprouted, was nurtured and was shielded by the grand trunk of the Tree of Liberty with roots deep in Western Culture.

Some people today seem to think that the movement for individual human liberty began in the 50’s in America with no consideration or appreciation for the true history.

One action we can each take today, is to help abolish the racial terms and concept of Black and White along with any institutions that perpetuate these racial terms or concepts.

My final thoughts

mwilliam — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:05:24 -0400

Jon, thanks for your comments.

Again you make some good points. Please answer a couple of questions for me:

How do we make this transition happen? We can talk all day, but we need to act.

Since in the past some races of people could not share the same colleges as other races, what's wrong with the one race starting their own college to educate their people? If they couldn't get an education anywhere else, what were they to do?

You make some great points on how we need to progress as a unified nation, but I think you are making some very bad assumptions about why one race has their "own" colleges and churches.

And slavery? Two wrongs don't make a right.

Why can't we all just be Americans?

John — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:49:25 -0400

Although I attempted to keep my “naïve American” heritage somewhat secret as a child, when someone would find out that I had Indian blood, they would inevitably ask me what “tribe” I am from. I would give them an answer, but resented being cataloged as a tribal person.

This came from a discussion I heard as a child between my dad and my dad’s uncle Tecumseh. Tecumseh had said that America had destroyed our tribal culture and spirituality. He expressed great resentment for all that he felt was lost and could never be regained. He was quite bitter and hateful and often mad drunk.

My dad told Tecumseh that he felt that our individual liberty as American citizens was far better than being subject to a tribe and tribal rule. My dad told him that George Washington was a far better “Chief” than any of the chiefs of our tribal clan or nation because he gave us each our individual freedom. My Dad went on to explain about the Enlightenment Movement that ultimately led to the foundation of American based on the principles of individual Liberty.

I was startled recently when a person, who chose to set themselves apart as Black and had a Black University education, told me that our nation’s founding fathers were “Eurocentric” and were for enslaving Black people. This person seemed to believe that his ancestors at the time did not share in this Liberty and that he had been permanently injured himself because of this.

Here was an educated, affiuent, American citizen who was benefiting personally and individually from all that was gained in this pursuit for individual liberty, disparaging and disassociating himself from George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and all our nation’s brave founding fathers.

When I noted that we share the same freedom as American citizens, he told me that Black people like him did not have the same privileges and advantages as White people like me. He went on to tell me that they were not his founding fathers, and that his founding fathers came from Africa.

I let the subject drop. I thought how my great uncle Tecumseh would have spit in his face at being called a White person.

The self proclaimed Black man looked at me as if I should be shamed at all that my people had done to his people and thereby, to him. I felt that although he was an educated American citizen, that he was actually ignorant of the truth.

The concept of Freedom and individual Liberty did not come from Africa. White people did not go to Africa and capture Black people for slavery. White people went to Africa and traded stuff with Black people who then sold their Black brothers, sisters, and children into slavery. Often, being sold into slavery kept the people from being killed outright. For these people, slavery was their salvation.

Africa was completely compliant in slavery. The first slave owner at Jamestown, the first slave owner in what is now America, was an African Black person. Slavery still survives today in Africa, Blacks are enslaving other Blacks even today, along with genocide because of simple tribal hatred.

How can an American Citizen put African culture above their individual Liberty? A liberty that was won with what might be called a majority of White blood spilled from the French Revolution, through many wars including the Revolution and Civil War.

How can an American Citizen, even if they set themselves apart tribally as Black or Indian, not appreciate and be thankful for the White blood sacrificed for that Citizenship? Where is the appreciation in the Black Comminity for what they have gained from what is called the White Community? Why do they have to be set apart? Why not have an American Community?

My dad, as a young man, broke into a store to steal food for my family. On his way out of the store he picked up a few dollars and change from a box on the counter. Turned out it was stamp money and he ended up in Federal prison.
When Tecumseh threw up to him that America had sent him to prison, my dad told him that in prison he had worked in the print shop, was able to get a job in a print shop when he got out of prison, and was able then to support his family very well as a printer since that time.

My dad taught me to appreciate America and the struggle and sacrifice by others that it took to gain our individual freedom. Even though there were so many people more fortunate than us at the time (Black and White), he taught me to appreciate what we did have and what might be gained through personal struggle in America.

Frankly, there was nothing much there to help my dad, and I was not able to go to college. And people still try to categorize me, asking if I am Greek or Indian, or assume I am White with olive skin and blame me for past injustices.

And many of my relatives still blame America for their own faults. I, however, feel so privileged just to be an American…and so proud that we can openly discuss such things as this.

The term is seldom used today, but it was one of my dad’s favorites – the term and concept of America being the “melting pot”. Let’s really forget color, Let's get the racist terms Black, White, Brown, Yellow out of our minds and blend together into American Citizens.

Perhaps we can begin by considering the offspring of a so called Black person and a so called White person, neither Black or White. It would be good to consider such a person simply American.

Good point

mwilliam — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 00:28:00 -0400

You make a great point. That type of stuff does not have its place today. We need forward thinking. You are so right.

So how do we deal with those people who think they are better than others because of the color of their skin? They need to think forward too, right? What about the people who say they are "turning" on Obama now because of the Rev.? Do they need to think forward and understand just because a friend has a belief doesn't mean you have that belief? Most that say they are turning on him were probably never going to vote for him anyway. Those folks are out there.

Did Obama say he heard Wright say those things for the 20 years he was there? I thought he said he heard things that made him "cringe" but not those horrible, but half-true things the Rev. said.

I don't care who is black or white or male or female. I don't care about 'ole Rev. Wright either. I care about who is better fit to lead our country. That's all that

If it's a white woman, cool. A black man, fine. A white man, cool. Who cares what race or gender someone is? Why do we care?

I just wish race didn't matter at all. How do we get there? Can we get there? Are we all willing to do our part?

Black Liberation Theology in a nutshell

Visitor — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 23:25:43 -0400

Rev. Wright preaches Black Liberation Theology. Obama believes in Black Liberation Theology because he's spent 20 years at Wright's church.

Black Liberation Theology believes that any favor a white person does for the black community is only done so out of a desire to perpetuate enslavement, to make sure the black community is forever beholden to the white power structure. According to Rev. Wright, the Clintons' actions of good faith toward the black community are proof positive of their attempts to retain their mastery over an oppressed people.

This type of thinking may have had a place in the 60s and 70s, but it most certainly does not have a place today. I cannot elect a President who subscribes to this view. This is not a forward-thinking view.

A couple of thoughts

mwilliam — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:08:04 -0400

You make some good points. Why do we need terms to describe us? I don't know. How do we describe green M&M's? We call them green. That's just how it is. I respect your opinion. But I don't think the problem is what we are all called. The problem is what society thinks of what we are all called. You could call a race another name and people who hate that race will still hate them. It's not in the name.

As for black churches, organizations and universities, what were people in the 50's and 60's supposed to do? Not be a part of anything because they weren't allowed to be a part of other groups? That's absurd. Minorities couldn't get in college, so minorities started their own. What's the problem with that? If someone can't get a job, would it be okay for him or her to start his or her own business? See my point?

Historically black colleges do have students of other ethic groups.

I'm all for ALL of us being together. But when ALL of us don't feel that way, it can't work. Everyone has to be on board or there's a problem.

Why do we have to have

John — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:26:24 -0400

Why do we have to have racist terms of any type to describe us? The only factual way to describe a person racially is to have a full DNA read. At this factual level, there are no pure Blacks, Whites, Browns, or Yellows. They are all mixed up.

The implication of Black, White, Brown, or Yellow, when used for racial distinction; is that this implies pure race.

A Black person, by implication, has pure African blood, with no White blood. Problem is most, so called, Black people have some White blood; and most, so called, White people have some black, brown, or yellow blood.

Without the racist term “Black” and this racist identity of “community”, and segregated Black churches, and segregated Black educational institutions; the American Black race just might integrate individually as Citizens into mainstream American society, as Dr. King so dreamed, where we no longer acknowledge Black or White or any racial color.

The terms Black, White, Brown, and Yellow when used in the designation of groups are compliant tools for racism in America today. Again, why do we need these terms?

Thanks for your comments

mwilliam — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:20:59 -0400

I disagree with you, though, on a few points.

We have to have terms that describe us, like black or white or Asian. That doesn't mean if we are one of those "terms" that we are less of a human than any of the others. I think that's where the problem comes in.

Describing himself as 'black' because he is bi-racial is something that started long before Obama. You may remember the "one drop" rule. If a person was part black, they were considered less of a person and therefore called black. I think that's just something people subscribe to. I disagree with it, but that's how it is (in the black/white case, bi-racial people shouldn't be described as being either white or black. why would anyone want to be white just because there is a 'wide diversity of people termed White?).

I didn't understand this graph:

'America is likely to elect any qualified American Citizen, however, a person who identifies themselves as set apart culturally being African-American, or racially as being Black, and attends a racially oriented and divisive church for 20 years, can hardly be called totally American or even mainstream American."

I don't know why anyone would call himself or herself 'grey.'

Black churches and organizations don't teach hate. I attended a historically black college and there was never a message of hatred toward anyone. These types of organizations were started so that I would have the chance at attending college and making it in the work force. When there were no such organizations, people like me could not have attended school because they weren't allowed in.

I really appreciate your comments. Sometimes I think we have to understand others in order to figure out why they feel, say and do what they do.

Obama's Missed Opportunity

john — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:26:11 -0400

Sen. Obama missed an expellent opportunity to rise above race. As a person who describes himself as having a
White mother and Black father, also describes himself as Black. The use of these terms such as Black and White are racist in nature. I'll quote a blog I posted yesterday after watching Sen. Obama's speech. The title is "The Black and White of Racism"

"Anyone who uses the terms Black or White in the description of a group of people are compliant with racism today. Moreover, a person who thinks in these terms is mentally programmed to think and reason as a racist.

As Mammals within the species of Primates, Homo sapiens have been further categorized racially as Caucasoids, Negroids, and Mongoloids. This early simple distinction of racial groups has become far more complex as can be viewed at Wikipidia under the subject of Race.

While the terms Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid, are simplistic and out of favor today, the complexity of describing race today, on an individual basis as shown by the Wikipidia Text, indicates that terms such as Black, White, Brown, and Yellow have no meaning other than for the purpose racist conceptualizations.

The term White is used by the racist mind to group and stereotype a vast number of cultures from all over the world into one racial group. The term Black is used by the racist mind to group all people who identify with the African continent into a single racial group.

While most homo sapiens today are interrelated genetically, a person running for President of the United States of America today, Barack Obama, noted that his mother was White and his father was Black. He then went on to designate himself racially as Black.

Why would a person with a White mother and Black father consider themselves Black? Why would they not be White considering the wide diversity of people termed White?

Unfortunately, Sen. Obama missed an excellent opportunity to establish himself beyond the terms of Race or Culture. America is likely to elect any qualified American Citizen, however, a person who identifies themselves as set apart culturally being African-American, or racially as being Black, and attends a racially oriented and divisive church for 20 years, can hardly be called totally American or even mainstream American.

In the use of his terms of Black and White, it would follow that Sen. Obama should designate himself by color as Grey.

There is an established American Culture with a history that unites all American Citizens into one mainstream culture. As a country of immigrants, many Citizens acknowledge other cultural heritages, but are loyal Americans first and foremost.

Much progress has been made in abolishing separations and segregations by race and culture in America society. Doors of integration have been opened wide to bring people who consider themselves Black into the mainstream. The invitation has been for all people to vanish racially into mainstream America. Yet today, a person born to a black and white couple is required for racial purposes to identify themselves as a Black African-American

As we have seen in the news of late, Black racially oriented churches teach hate to even the children with no message of appreciation for or integration into mainstream America. Today we have Black Churches, Black Universities, and Black Entertainment that are neither diverse nor integrated. These Black Institutions promote racism, division, dissention, and anti-American culture.

It is time to stop the social polarization caused by the use of divisive terms like Black and White. It is telling that the first sentence about Race in Wikipedia begins The term race refers to the concept of dividing people…

My father was what is called a native-American even though he did not use the term. I understood, as a child, that I was part Indian and came home one day from a Cowboy and Indian movie disturbed that I had savages as ancestors. I asked my dad if I was an Indian. He replied without hesitation that I was a full blooded American.

Perhaps it is time for us all to be Full Blooded Americans first."*

*racism-america.blogspot.com

Obama's pastor was right, sort of...

mwilliam — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:51:37 -0400

Barack Obama basically said the same thing his pastor said. During his speech Tuesday, he said most of the same truths that Rev. Jeremiah Wright has said in a few of his sermons, though Obama delivered…

Barack Obama basically said the same thing his pastor said.

During his speech Tuesday, he said most of the same truths that Rev. Jeremiah Wright has said in a few of his sermons, though Obama delivered them differently.

One thing the pastor pointed out is how America is still racist, no matter what anyone says or pretends to believe. Obama pretty much echoed that thought, but was just a little more eloquent with his remarks than the pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. But he was right on point with it.

Let's just face the truth: America is one of the greatest countries in the world, if not the greatest. But America is not perfect. We've got some things to work out. Realizing that is step one.

Barack Obama basically said the same thing his pastor said.

During his speech Tuesday, he said most of the same truths that Rev. Jeremiah Wright has said in a few of his sermons, though Obama delivered them differently.

Let's just face the truth: America is one of the greatest countries in the world, if not the greatest. But America is not perfect. We've got some things to work out. Realizing that is step one.

Barack Obama basically said the same thing his pastor said.

During his speech Tuesday, he said most of the same truths that Rev. Jeremiah Wright has said in a few of his sermons, though Obama delivered them differently.

Let's just face the truth: America is one of the greatest countries in the world, if not the greatest. But America is not perfect. We've got some things to work out. Realizing that is step one.