share.triangle.com - Should a fetus with Down syndrome be aborted? - Comments

What if students with poor grammar were to be aborted?

Visitor — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 23:51:28 -0500

The fact that this student, who can barely put a coherent sentence together, is close to graduation from what is generally considered a fine academic institution, causes me grave concern for the future of our country!

However, the fact that this individual expresses no moral outrage over this issue is much more horrifying! What if the good professor, who is only trying to spark discussion, decides that all students with poor grammar do not deserve to live, either? As we saw in Hitler's Germany, it is only a few moral regressions between forced abortion of a certain group of people, and the wholesale murder of the same and other groups. Professor Harris is essentially saying that individuals who have Down syndrome do not deserve to live because, in his not-so-humble opinion, they will be a burden to their families and not be able to contribute to society. My husband and I have adopted three beautiful children with Down syndrome and also have two very gifted sons who were born to us. To say that my children with Down syndrome are less valuable than my gifted children is the worst form of sophistry I can imagine. All of my children are incredible gifts from God who have brought joy and delight to us and all who meet them. My children with Down syndrome have smiles so big, it nearly breaks their faces to grin! They teach us about compassion, integrity, persistence, tolerance toward others and patience every single day. How sad that, given the opportunity, they would share their beautiful smiles with Professor Harris even though he does not think they are worthy to live!

I wouldn't discount an

Visitor — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:32:46 -0500

I wouldn't discount an entire university..just those in the medical field who were educated there.

wow

Visitor — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:43:31 -0500

A substantial number of DS babies still die before birth or within their first year.

if by "substantial" you mean 12%, then perhaps you should take a math class while you are up there attending college?>

A study from Europe in 1997 found that in babies born with DS, 88% were alive at 1 year and 82% alive at 10 years. The major cause of death in the first year of life was due to heart defects and/or their complications. If you split the group into with and without congenital heart disease, 80% of babies with heart defects were alive after one year, and 96% of babies with DS with no heart defects were alive after one year. Again, these statistics may change for other parts of the world. (Hayes C et al, Int J Epid, 26(4): 822-829, 1997)

Where did you go to school?

Visitor — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:37:34 -0500

WHERE did you go to school? Oh wait...nevermind.

It is, exceedingly,

Visitor — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:54:43 -0500

It is, exceedingly, unfortunate that this particular poster's message is one of the first read by anyone who has an interest in the remarks made by Professor Harris.

I am stunned by the countless number of grammatical errors and the profoundly poor level of writing skill of a senior student at the Univerity of North Carolina.

The writer owes her/his parents a large sum of money for the missed opportunity of a higher education.

Should a fetus with Down syndrome be aborted

Visitor — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:15:53 -0500

Prof. Harris is entitled to his opinion. However, I would hope a university professor would give an educated opinion, not an opinion based on a sample size of one (it "ruined" the life of someone he knew) and out-of-date information. When babies w/DS were institutionalized, as they were when Prof. Harris started teaching, people thought that the majority were severly/profoundly affected. But since then, people with DS are being raised at home, their health issues are being dealt with, and they have educational opportunities because of IDEA. And guess what? Most people with DS are now considered mildly or moderately delayed. Yes, some have health issues, but most who are born today will live until their 50s. About 1% may get leukemia (I know of only 2 personally), but strangely enough most people w/DS have a better chance of surviving leukemia (over 80%) than typical kids. Scientists are now trying to determine why. 30-40% have heart issues, but the vast majority of these can be operated on and some are outgrown. Some have hypothyroidism (10%), but so what? You take a pill a day.
It's only a matter of time before science can determine in the womb what health issues we "typical" humans may have, such as Alzheimers, diabetes.
Many people w/DS are leading fulfilling lives, and some have accomplished feats most people only dream of such as starring in TV and movies, swimming the English Channel, playing five instruments, writing a book, playing HS football and basketball (see Sports Illustrated), etc... More and more are getting married.
If anyone is prochoice, they should be concerned that a professor saying they believe it's a women's moral responsibility to have an abortion if their fetus has DS is a step away from suggesting that this woman shouldn't have a choice.

The Other Side of the Story

Still mystified — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:42:23 -0500

I am glad to hear the other side of this story; however, I do not understand why a news reporter would dignify this whole subject regardless of your professor's opinion. I also find his "opinion" to be contradictory if he truly said that fetuses with Down's syndrome should be aborted but that he, himself, would not do such a thing. What, then was his rationale for this position, and where would he stop? There are many other genetically based diseases - should all of these people also be aborted because they do not fit some "ideal view" of what a human life should be like?

It turns out that this morning while I was praying in front of an arbortuary, someone came holding a Down's syndrome child who was about 2-3 years old. What I noticed most about her was her broad smile. No, she may not live to be the sharpest person and she may cause hardships for her family but I am confident that she will bring much happiness to her family and others.

Don't we all in some way shape or form cause hardships for our families? What about those people with normal or stellar intelligence that plague their families and themselves with all types of addictions (some of which we may learn are genetically based)?

While I condone free thinking and the ability for people to express their opinions, I cannot fathom that anyone would make such a ridiculous, insensitive comment even if it was only meant to stimulate thought and discussion. Where will this insanity of thinking that WE are in charge of making life and death decisions end?

BUT he is teaching that it's

Visitor — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:47:02 -0500

BUT he is teaching that it's a MORAL OBLIGATION to terminate. Don't you understand that this is so much more than a typical abortion debate. He is calling into question a woman's right to choose -- that is to choose not to abort. Too many people are trying to reframe this argument and are missing the point. There are many pro-choice people outraged by his teachings.

I find it so hard to believe

Visitor — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:30:57 -0500

I find it so hard to believe that we are even having this discussion. I am a college graduate, and never have I seen such lack of integrity. Yes, you are adults, who can think for yourselves, but until you have had an experience for your self, we all, count on someone who is in an educated role to help us to understand and make decisions. Professors influenced me a great deal for a long time, until I realized that just because they teach at a college level, does not make them know all there is to know in life. I am shocked by his statement to anyone, not just college students. There is so much misinformation like this about Down syndrome, nobody can say that this does not affect people's opinions of this subject. We all need to wake up and realize that we can not continue to be a great nation, if we continue to have professor zealots like this, educating our next generation of medical professionals. Scary stuff!

Down Syndrome children

Visitor — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:11:44 -0500

I found out at 17 weeks that my baby boy was going to have Down Syndrome unlike the other 90 % of women I wanted and chose to have my baby. My 4 year old is the best natured and most loving of all 3 kids. Anyone that is even considering abortion should call there local Down Syndrome Association and get the facts first and not listen to heresay and don't believe the stuff you read from 30, 20 or even 10 years ago. These kids are amazing and if given the chance can do great things. The problem with this world is that we are a throw away society and the world would be a better place if we could see thru the eyes of a child with Down Syndrome they have no hate for anyone.

about your comment

Visitor — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:28:50 -0500

>Here is some points that I would also like to make from my opinion.

how did you get into college?

Free Expression regarding Down syndrome et al

Phyllis Marshall-Rice — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:46:15 -0500

Were the professor's comments in a coffee house amongst friends then that would be his opinion, whether I or you agreed with it or not. Saying what was said to 100 students is another matter and skirts the edge between free speech and inciting followers. This is a state supported university with tax dollars at work. Targeting a specific group does reek of the Holocaust, and while I do feel this is a strong comparison, I have been to the Holocaust Museum and seen first hand how not only people of Jewish descent were targeted but also those considered retarded and less that "pure". Racism and exclusion starts out seductively labeled under the blanket of free speech - don't be fooled into allowing it and calling it for what it is. It can happen to any group before you know it. And, if you are part of that group, you'd be amazed at how much more offending it is to you.

Thanks for the link

Jackie — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:30:53 -0500

His published notes are interesting.... And could use a bit of updating. "Old" oocytes as absolute cause for Trisomy 21 is old science. And though it's not a genetics class, I'm surprised he doesn't spend a sentence or two on translocation and mosaic Down syndrome. A bit more science, perhaps, if he's going to wade into eugenics.

i think this is bull

Dana — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 16:10:29 -0500

i have a daughter with down syndrome and i would like to tell everyone who has no idea what a pleasure it is to have my daughter. Stormy is 2 years old now and a wonderful child while i did have an amnio it wasnt so i could decide weither or not i was goin to have but so that i could educate myself on things that i might have to expect with her. i really didnt know much about the process so when my doc asked me to have it done i said ok. now lookin back i wouldnt have done it because no matter what the out come is i would have had my daughter no matter what and i did. i now have two children stormy who has down syndrome and emma who does not and they are both the lite of my life. by the way i am only 27 years old. so anyone who thinks you shouldnt have a child with DS you should know what you are talkin about because unless you have lived with a child or been involved in a childs life that has ds you cant understand what a joy they are

Professor's Notes

Visitor — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:25:48 -0500

Unfortunately the "good" professor cowardly changed his notes online. They no longer state that it is his opinion. However, I do have the original notes printed out and you can view his revised notes at this address: http://www.bio.unc.edu/faculty/harris/Courses/biol441/feb_11_notes.htm

Changing notes=coward

But that's to be expected, I suppose

Should a fetus with Down syndrome be aborted?

mwilliam — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:27:00 -0500

UNC embryology professor Albert Harris told his class the moral thing to do, if a woman’s amniocentesis shows Down syndrome, is to abort the fetus. He said in his opinion, it's probably the thing to do. Some in the community object. What do you think? What's your opinion?

UNC embryology professor Albert Harris told his class the moral thing to do, if a woman’s amniocentesis shows Down syndrome, is to abort the fetus.…